Discussion forum for kitchen & both professionals
Have a question and looking for feedback from industry peers? This month KBDN listens in on dialogue between industry professionals as excerpted from the KitchenBathPros.com online Design Discussion Forum.
BACKSPLASH COSTS
QUESTION
I am very curious about how others charge for designing tile backsplashes. Can someone offer any suggestions?
There seems to be little room to mark up tile given the small discounts offered by most high-end manufacturers. Right now, if someone contracts for cabinets, I will do a backsplash design and mark up the tile to list price. Even then, there is so much room for error and little profit potential at the same time. Does anyone have any ideas in regard to this situation?
-susan27
RESPONSE 1
I'll tell you what I do, but you may not like it very much. I will charge 25 percent above and beyond the retail price, and then I keep whatever discount I get. I will also mark up the labor to a degree.
I sell it on the basis of all the work being done, including the shopping, design, ordering, checking tile and supervision.
If you want it, I suggest that you take it!
-susanckd
RESPONSE 2
I think with ceramic tile, you have to mark it up to make any profit on the job at all. Designs can be quite time consuming, and you need to be paid for the work you are putting in!
I have worked for design/build companies that have charged [quite a bit] for the tile and labor. The final cost was somewhere between $750 and $1,000, but this was for very small kitchens.
In the end, the total cost for the project included the tile, and about another $1,000 to $1,500 for installation and labor.
-KarH
RESPONSE 3
Usually we ballpark backsplash costing to about $2,500 depending on the cost of the tile and pattern (including installation). They can often sell for $2,200-$6,000 depending on the complexity of the work. We [get around it] by funneling our customers to our tile distributors' showrooms. The tile designers there are usually fabulous - not only at layout but also at upselling highly priced trim and other decorative stuff.
It's really worked out for us because as long as we buy the tile from the distributor, there is no charge for that service.
Another reason why we like this setup is because there is not much money in tile, and this way our customers are happy and we still maintain control over the project. In addition to that, we don't have to spend precious hours worrying about designing the perfect tile backsplash.
-jelkelkitchen
RESPONSE 4
We typically charge installation prices based on square footage, which usually falls in the $1,500 to $2,000 range. Then we send our customers to our tile showroom with wall drawings, and they purchase the tile using our contractor discount.
In my opinion, it seems to benefit everyone because the customer gets a better price, the showroom sells tile and we are not responsible for any tile ordering!
-MCR
CLIENT RELATIONS
There is a situation that has developed that I would appreciate some insight on from fellow designers.
I have met with a new client three times. She has paid me a retainer to design her kitchen, and each time I meet with her in her home, her best friend is at the meeting. Sometimes she even answers the questions I ask that are directed specifically to the homeowner!
At the first meeting, I thought they were domestic partners, but then one day the husband and daughter came home so it truly is a best friend joined at the hip thing.
It is bothering me because I feel like I am being undermined. Near the end of the last meeting the friend asked me, "How long have you been doing this?" She had her eyebrows raised. My credentials and portfolio were presented at the first meeting so I have to feel it was a jab. Midway through the meeting, she said to the homeowner, "I thought you were going to do this and I thought you were going to do that," and I said, "And just where are you getting the space to put all of those cabinets?"
Can anyone offer any advice on how to handle this situation? I think that I am pretty diplomatic, but I am also feeling really uncomfortable and a little troubled about this scenario. Thanks for any insight you can provide to me.
-sks05
I think you're working with one of my clients!
In my case, it is the same thing. Her best friend is in on every single decision, no matter how large or how small. I even printed a set of plans for her and she was there at the contract signing (however I didn't give her a copy of the contract). I have had all the same thoughts as you are having about your situation.
In my case, I must say that the best friend is lovely. She asks questions, gives her opinion, but her "way" is very sensitive to both me and her friend. My vibe toward her has always been very welcoming, so maybe that has made a slight difference. If your vibe is somewhat negative, that could make a difference in your case, so I'd look at that as a possible contentious situation.
Asking how long you're doing this, however, is not a way to get along well, so my advice is to ignore things like that, ask her friend what she thinks, then you ask the client, but sort of look back and forth at them. That way the client will feel included and her friend will feel good, too. Definitely give her "smiling attention."
I have on occasion asked the client, privately on the phone, how much involvement she wants her friend to have. You can be direct, but respectful, but also inquisitive so you understand the dynamics. There is nothing wrong with that approach and your client will appreciate it. Just tell her that you want to understand what she wants for her project.
I thought I was being very friendly and open to her input. I even commented on how well she must know the client and how hearing her perspective on the way the homeowner entertains, etc. was helpful when I did the measurements and surveys at the second meeting. I suppose that is why I was quite taken back by her attitude toward me at the meeting where I presented my concepts. She just did her kitchen last year and perhaps she feels that makes her an expert, but she was suggesting cabinets on walls that were not suitable for cabinets, and I offered my reaction. Overall, I need to let it run off my back and proceed as I normally would do.
I think you may have a tougher road than I did. I can be a bit confrontational. I think I would ask why she said something derogatory, in a curious, but respectful way, and if there are any issues she is uncomfortable about regarding the process. Others would advise not to speak up, but if I were constantly berated, I think I'd speak up. I hope that doesn't happen and that it's just an isolated incident.
I, too, have been in a similar situation! As tactfully as you can, you need to ask the client who will be living and working in this kitchen. How does "she" cook, wash, clean and use her kitchen? Ultimately, this can lead to a better overall relationship.
-crazycabs
At least the second decision-maker is there with you two. I have, on several occasions, had to ask a client to bring in the third party - as in, if this person is going to be at the table (and have influence on the decisions made), so to speak, then he or she had better be at the table participating in the process, rather than second guessing us later.
-jeng
SHOWROOM DISPLAYS
What is the best way to advertise and sell a showroom display that you need to switch out?
It is a closet system if that makes any difference. Any ideas that you can offer me would be greatly appreciated.
We are selling one of our kitchen displays. I just put a sign there with the retail price so that people can see the difference. Some people get intrigued by that approach. The problem is that the display may not fit into their home. Beyond that, once they get a price for the add-on items, they may lose their interest.
Part of me feels that the closet will be easier to sell since people don't really need more stuff.